A week ago I had the pleasure of facilitating a discussion with Kendra Marcus of Bookstop Literary Agency. Kendra was in Fairbanks visiting her daughter and offered a free question and answer session to any and all writers.
Kendra contacted Alaskan author Deb Vanasse through SCBWI and Deb (who is one of my long distance critique partners) contacted me. For writers in Fairbanks this was quite a treat. We don’t get many literary agents just stopping by and holding free sessions.
Luckily for us, Kendra enjoys winter weather.
At the end of the session I offered Kendra a ride. She thanked me for the offer but said she wanted to walk the mile up to the University, where she was meeting her daughter. It was a windy day, about 8 above zero.
As for the discussion, I didn’t have to do much facilitating because the ten writers, some published some not, some agented some not, who materialized at the Coffee House were bursting with questions, and Kendra’s responses led to more questions. Kendra even did a first page critique for one writer.
Her love for picture books, middle grade and young adult literature was very apparent. And she knows the book business; she’s been an agent since 1984. If she’s not already on your agent list, check out her website and see what you think.
Here are a few thoughts from Kendra regarding submissions:
1. Make sure your story has layers of complexity. Too often I see stories that are just dealing with the surface. They don’t go deep enough.
2. Let the character drive the plot.
3. Pretend I’m a kid. You have to get my interest on the first page.
How do you know when your first page is doing its job? How do you know when you’ve gone deep enough in your story? How do you decide when your story is ready for submission? I’d love to hear your thoughts on any or all of these questions. Thanks!
As far as how to know when something is done, I’ll let you know if I ever get there. 😉
I’m worried about my first page. Oh, and complexity and character driven plot. I’m worried about it all. And I have no answers. I’m in revision mode, can’t you tell. That uncertainty about everything. I hope others will have the answers!
And–thanks for posting this about Kendra Marcus’ visit–I was hoping!
Lucky for all of you that Kendra’s daughter lives in Fairbanks! What a wonderful and intimate writers’ event.
That must have been a really cool visit. Honestly, I never know when I’ve got the first page right. I try and go on gut instinct and what crit partners say. But it’s tough.
Heather, good luck with your revisions! I hope they go well.
Vonna, yes it was wonderful to have this intimate meeting. We are lucky. Kendra said she’d like to more next time she visits!
Thanks, Laura. It was very cool. I’d met Kendra once before at a conference a few years ago. She is an amazing person.
As for the questions: They are tough questions that I think we all ask ourselves. I know there are no easy answers but I’m curious about the thought processes of other writers. I had very few people look at Placement before I queried it but I took the critiques seriously. But when I finally sent it out no one had read that final version but me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! When I look back on my process I think it was also a combination of feedback plus gut instinct.
What a great opportunity for you and the local writers. I bet the experience was hugely motivational!
Number one is one of the reasons I’m working on becoming a better plotter/outliner.
Thanks, Deb. Number one is also the reason my first novel didn’t make it very far down the query road!
Wow, what are the chances of THAT? And, she really wanted to walk a mile in 8 degree, windy weather? For some strange reason, that impresses me.
I don’ t know exactly how I determine a piece is finished or deep enough or ready. I guess I just do my best and hope, hope, hope.
And… you have been on my mind this weekend because I am in the middle of a fantastic Middle Grade novel called “Blessings Bead” (Debby Dahl Edwardson). The author lives in Barrow, Alaska – married to an Eskimo. Her story is fiction but full of rich, wonderful, gorgeous details of the tundra and Northern AK region. You might like it!
Tess, thanks for the book recommendation. I am looking to increase my MG reading list. And yes, there is lots of hope involved in the submision process. Like you said, knowing that you’ve done your best is key. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Oh, that photograph is gorgeous! Almost (almost, I say) makes me want to live in Alaska. Thanks for the insight and tips from Kendra–layers and character-driven. I like that.
Tricia, glad you enjoyed the photo. I love living in Alaska but wouldn’t mind being in Anza Borrego Desert State Park for the bloom right now! I was there a few years ago in March. Amazing, as you must know.
I’m glad you could relate to Kendra’s tips for submissions.
For the first page, I try to pack a punch in the first sentence and first paragraph. As for going deep enough, I think about how the main character has changed in a major way from the beginning to the end.
What a wonderful opportunity you all had! I like Kendra’s reminder that our stories need layering. It can be too easy to get caught up in a headlong dash through the story and end up with a flat journey from beginning to end. The rich tapestry created by our characters’ action and interaction is far more likely to keep readers emotionally caught up in the story.
In many books that I’ve read the author spends the first page setting the scene but I like to use the first line/paragraph/page to drop the reader into an event that is crucial to the overall plot. It serves as a hook but also provides rapid pacing right off the bat. The other details get filled in later as needed.
Knowing when my story is ready for submission is always difficult. I revise endlessly, send it to a couple beta readers and revise even more based on their suggestions. Then I tweak until I’m sick of the story! About that time I’m convinced the whole thing is garbage and I’m desperate to start working on something else. That’s my moment of decision, to shelve it or start the query process. Generally, I shelve it. I’m getting quite a collection on that bottom shelf. 😦
Medeia, thanks for your thoughts on first pages and on character depth. It is so important to keep in mind where your MC starts and then ends up. Thanks for that point.
Carol, it is so true that stories can fall flat and leave the reader disconnected emotionally. That was one of the things that happened with my first attempt at a novel. It was as you described–a flat journey.
I hope the story you are working on now passes your readiness test and you send it out!!
Thank you for sharing Paul. That must have been a great discussion to be a part of!
I think I have the opposite of #1. Too many layers of complexity. Ha!
Hi, Casey. Yes, it was a great discussion. Kendra is really a top-knotch person and very generous with her time. Regarding complexity, I wish you luck deciding which layers to keep and which to cut if it comes down to that. Maybe you’ll be left with some excellent material for a second book. Thanks for your thoughts!
I think I am with Casey. I have been working on this draft for so many years that every time I come up with a new idea I think. Really? Will that make it better? But I am with Heather. Insecure revision mode. Who knows?
Thanks for the questions. They are thought provoking!
Hi, Tina. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, there is a lot of gray area with regard to these questions. I almost didn’t post them, but they are questions I ask myself with my writing. The book I am rewriting now is the first novel that I wrote, so, like yours, it is many years old, but is turning into a new book. I’ve cut most of the old story in terms of who the MC is but have kept the plot and setting. So I am rebuilding a character and voice. It is very interesting work. Good luck with your story!
Great questions! I’m still trying to figure out the answers. I’m hoping my story has enough layers. That’s one thing I’ve felt good about from the beginning. Thanks for the link to Kendra. I did not already have her on my list, but now I do.
You’re welcome, Susan. This is the second time I’ve met Kendra. She would be a good person to have in your corner. Glad you enjoyed the questions! Some good ones to chew on!
The layers of complexity is the biggest challenge for me. It’s not that the complexity isn’t there, but sometimes I have a hard time bringing it to the surface and describing it all.
How lucky for you!!! What fun to sit with an agent and get a free Q&A session! I think the layering of complexity has a lot to do with making sure our characters have motivations that drive the various plot layers. Then the trick of the writer is to wrap up all those layers by the end in a way that isn’t contrived!
Alissa, I guess one of the keys is making sure the complexity you have created is accesible to the reader. That’s a great revision angle. Thank you!
Jody, I love the way you tied the character driving the plot to the layering. The more we can keep our eyes on the those character motivations the less likely it is that we’ll slip into a contrived ending. Thanks!
Man, Paul, those are really hard questions! I think it’s a matter of “feel.” For me. I don’t know how to describe how I know when something is deep enough or ready to send out. I just do. Maybe because I’ve worked it to death, and put in the senses layer and the emotional layer, the character layer and the plot layers. Maybe after all that, it just feels right.
Maybe??
Elana, yes they are tough questions! Thanks for your thoughts and for naming some specifci layers that you work with. Good things to keep in mind.
Hi Paul, after about one hundred edits of my first page I am still not sure if it is right.
I’d love to know for sure. After receiving a few rejections on my query, I am beginning to think it needs to be edited again. How can you tell when your first page is right?
Maribeth, I wish I had an easy answer for you regarding how you can tell when your first page is right. I gave my first chapter of Placement to a few readers and got their comments on what was working and what wasn’t. That helped me to change a couple of things, to really make sure the voice came through on the first page, and even though my MC has an anger problem to make sure he didn’t sound like too much of a whiner.
I really liked Medeia’s comment: “For the first page, I try to pack a punch in the first sentence and first paragraph.”
It sounds like you have worked on it so much that you’d benefit from some fresh eyes. You might want to give your first page to a few readers and ask them if it left them with the feeling of wanting to read on or not.
Also, the blog, Flogging the Quill, does first page critiques. If you prefer to go it alone I’d suggest Noah Lukeman’s book: “The First Five Pages.”
As far as your query goes, I’m not sure how many you’ve sent out compared to how many rejections you’ve received so it is hard to comment on that. Feel free to email me with specifics if you’d like, or to leave another comment.
Wonderful Paul. I loved reading. And you know what? She is now. *grin*
How did I know my first page was done? Hmmm, I think it was when I realized I wasn’t making any more big changes. It was just something I knew. Can’t wait to see what happens Paul. It’s so very thrilling.
Thank you for giving us this peek. =)
Robyn, glad I could introduce you to Kendra via my blog. Good luck with the querying! It is an exciting time for you!!
Talk about serendipity, Paul. Fabulous. I met Kendra at an SCBWI conference a few years ago, and she was great. Her hints to authors are extremely useful guidelines.
Congratulations on being able to host her up there in your northern climes.
What a wonderful experience! Thank you for sharing Kendra’s tips for the first page. I especially like the third–pretend I’m a kid.
I don’t feel comfortable with my first page until it’s been revised several times and critiqued. The first ten-fifteen pages always need the most work because when I start writing, I don’t always know the depth of story that will come out. When the draft is finished, the first pages need to reflect this.
Thanks for making me think!
C. Lee, it was a real pleasure having Kendra do a session in a Coffee Shop–fun for everyone, and great advice for writers. Thanks!
Jill, great point about the first part of the book potentially needing the most attention–a good thing to keep in mind for all. Thanks!
That first page… compelling haiku in prose, containing everything. Sigh. Back to work. Another edit. That one page. But it’ll work…
I don’t write for children, but all three of Kendra’s points are spot-on for any type of fiction. Sounds like a savvy lady!
Paul–thanks so much for checking out the WIBIJ game! Your rhyme was awesome! And, about that…you should visit the WIBIJ blog again soon–there is something there with your name on it (to do with whatever you will!)
http://wibij.blogspot.com/
Those are tough questions, Paul.
I don’t think there are easy answers. I try to trust my own instincts.
I love the part about pretending you’re a kid reading the book. That is very good advice.
Thanks, Robert. A Haiku has to pack a punch just like a first page. Great analogy!
Heather, I’ll get back over there soon. Thank you!
K.M., it’s always a treat to sit down and talk with someone who has as much experience and success as Kendra.
Yes, Kathy, they are tough questions. Trusting instincts is definitely part of the picture for me, too. I guess one of the keys is knowing what to do next if your instincts are telling you something isn’t working.
How great is that! Wonderful for you. Thanks for posting this info.
That’s awesome! Your talk sounds intimate and cozy! I met Minju Chang once, and she was great! (She’s at the same agency.)
Excellent questions, and I don’t think any of the answers are easy. I love going to conferences with first page critiques. You can learn so much, even if they don’t discuss your page. And when is a book finished?! Ah! I’ve been wrong before on that one, thinking it was finished then realizing it could be bigger.
Testing.
Hi Paul, Sorry I’m posting so much. Somehow when I sign in, my name leads to my outdated blog and I’m trying to figure out why. Forgive me.
Laura
Okay, trying it again. Sorry. Laura
Your welcome, Terry!!
Dawn, I met Minju at the PNWA 2008 Conference. Like you said, she was great! Thanks for your thoughts!
Hi Paul, Yes, you just commented on the right one. I finally figured it out. When I comment on blogs and I’m signed in on my updated blog, the link of my name leads to the old one! I couldn’t figure out why people kept commenting on such old posts. 🙂 So now, on the outdated one, I put up a post with a link to the updated one. I’m not sure how to fix the problem. I have a wordpress blog but it’s not hosted by wordpress. At least I figured out what was going on. The first time I commented on this past last week, leads to my outdated one. Sorry for the lengthy explanation. Thanks again for helping to figure this out!
Laura 🙂
Laura, no problem. I’m no tech wizard but I can click on things and tell people where I’m led to:-)
Thanks for the details!